From: "RObin" To: "Colleen De Koning" Subject: Re: Bad Birth Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 8:33 AM Hi Colleen, I'm sorry to hear about your Bad Birth Experience.... Do you currently have an attorney that is pursuing this? I ask, because we had gone to several attorneys that said we had a case, but could not pursue it because it was very technical and they were a small firm. It has taken us two years just to find the right attorneys to take this case. So hang in there and be persistent. Legal action will be your only course of justice and internal peace, these people need to be raked through the coals. Go get them. Don't let them get away with this you'll never be at peace. How is your suit going? I would really like to know. I am really glad that you wrote to us and I really want to publish a book on this subject. We all victims of this system and in our case our baby suffered too. How many others must suffer through what we went through? It's time we work together to bring this out in the open and warn the unsuspecting. I think we are on to something big. Let's see how we can help each other and put an end to this. We would like to post your story on the internet and we will leave your name off of it unless you tell us otherwise. Please let us know how everything is going and keep us posted. Again thank you, Robin & Bob** XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Robert. Thank you for your reply. I am very sorry for you or anyone who has had to go through a bad birth experience, and I would hazard to guess it happens to the majority, people are just not as stubborn as me. The fact that you end up with a healthy baby makes many people say to just drop it. (good thing I didn't let them take him to IC..) Well, I am not going to drop it, even if we lose. Yes, it is very technical, and I am worried that the attending human (?) has stated there was fetal distress, but am hoping almost perfect apgar will disprove this. I, too, talked to many lawyers immediately after the birth, and none would take the case unless I had a signed confession of wrongdoing... but I explained my case to a lawyer/customer at work (I was working in a pharmacy), who said he would take it, even though he normally discourages medical malpractice claims. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and am doing all the research I can, to get in the fray. The problem is, that although I can find numerous references to episiotomy being inherently bad, I cannot find any legal references or suit history to having one against one's will... perhaps noone else has ever fought it? I think this is the one area where women just "take it", and try to move on, which is why the attitudes and protocol have not changed. All I can say, is they don't know who they messed with. I read a note on "Birth plans", where a doctor wrote something along the lines of .... My opinion of a birth plan- The parents choices are the baby's sex and eye color... everything else is the Doctor's... VERY ARROGANT. Perhaps I continue to be angry because I am reminded of it every time I sit down, and my husband is reminded of it because of 11 months of semi-intimacy.... Please, if you come across any resources or experience that would be helpful to me, it would be appreciated. I checked up on the human (?) that started all of this, and he received his degree in 1972 in Thailand... But, I need any kind of help I can to teach this lesson. You can use my full name, and all facts, and if you want more detail, I will provide it, as I've really only skimmed the surface in my bio. I am sorry for anyone who had a bad birth experience, and can only hope if you can get enough people to come forward, perhaps this will change. The only hurdle I see is the people who say "I had this unfortunate experience, but the baby was healthy, so I really can't complain"... I say, start complaining, and LOUD. We want another baby soon, because of my age, and now have no option but C-section because of all of the damage.... ! So I'll really have to be a bitch about every little detail, AND warn that I WILL SUE if proper procedure is not followed. Thanks for your reply, and let me know if there is anything I can do to help. BTW, I also participated in another email book, by an author, already published several years ago, called Lost Mothers, about adoptees/birthparents true feelings about the process. Let me know if any of that might be helpful to your publishing... maybe the publisher would be interested? Anyway, thanks. colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hi. I had an episiotomy against my instructions in my birthplan. My baby was full term, no complications, 6 pounds. I ended up with a 4th degree laceration, a recto-vaginal fistula, 10 months of pain and inconvenience, and eventually a reconstructive surgery to repair the fistula, take down and repair the episiotomy scarring, and to stitch back the pelvic muscles which had been cut and not pulled back between my vagina and rectum. 5 months later, I still have pain and disfigurement. So far, $1600 of "Expert medical opinion" has told my lawyer there is no malpractice observed. Any information or help would be appreciated. Thanks Colleen De Koning vegicat@cybergate.com XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX First let me say i am so sorry thathad to happen to you. I have had clients with the same problems, I couldn't imagine what you must be going through. I wish I could tell you exactly who to talk to, I am just not sure of who could lend the most help. Do you just need some names of doctors that would back up your side? Or studies that confirm what you already know (that episiotomies are very bad) Basically, its establish medical practice, even though it's WRONG and down right dangerous. Most doctors believe in them and unfortuanetly it makes a case against it difficult. Really yu have to go on issue of informed consent. You said no to the procedure and he preformed it any way, going against wishes pre-set by you in your birth plan. I would talk to midwives, they never use this procedure, so obviously it isn't needed in birth, or else they would do it also. The OB community will stick up for its own, so you must find doctros and midwives that abandoned the procedure. If you like, I can give this to my doula list and see if there is some one in your area familiar with who you could talk with about this. The issue is pretty clear on informed consent. The procedure is a surgical one, done without your permission, that is not needed in birth. What was the doctors reasoning? Was thier fetal distress or just routine for him? please tell me more, I applaud your efforts to seek a malpractice suit. If women did this, doctors would wake up and realize!!!!!! The other thing you can do is research the medical databases, there are lots of studies on episiotomy and its reputation for extension to 4th degree (which doesn't happen in a natural tear). I can certainly do my best to help you. Start with Medline, there is a link on my Doula Notes site at www.cefcares.org/doula/home.htm By the way how did you find me? I am always curious! :O) Where do you live? Maybe I can find a few doulas there that can help you make contacts. RM XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hello. Thank you for replying. Maybe I should go into more detail. I had a birth-plan, which I had discussed with my doctor fully, and had brought into the office. The first time they just made a copy, but I said I needed it signed. My next visit she signed it and they made another copy for their file. I (I don't know how, with all the insurance paperwork, et al, lost my copy). I took a copy of the signed statement with me for pre-admittance to the hospital. I saw the woman put the copy in my file. When I actually gave birth, my doctor was on vacation, and at the very last minute, a doctor showed up with a tray of instruments. When I asked what he was doing, he said "Do you want to tear and bleed all over?'. In the middle of labor is not the time to ask that... the next thing I knew, I'd had an episiotomy. Afterwards, I asked why it was taking so long to stitch me up, and he threw his arms in the air saying "You want me to stop?"... I suffered for 10 months with bowel movements coming out of my vagina every day. I had a distance between my vagina and rectum of about 1/2 inch. I knew this was not normal, but my regular doctor kept saying to wait to see if I would heal. I ended up having invasive reconstructive surgery ($20,000) to lengthen the distance between my vagina and rectum, as well as fix the fistula. The colon doctor said I had NO muscles between the two, and had to pull them through and stitch them. Before it was messy, now it's just painful. Now I have a hard, frankensteinian scar, even though the geography is more correct. When my lawyer (the only one I could get to agree to let me pay to sue) got my records, there was no signed birthplan in my doctor's records, or in the hospital records, although there are references to the nurse advising him to review it. The doctor who performed the episiotomy has no records of me at all. A woman who works at a local movie rental also works at the hospital, and asked me if I was the Collen De Koning who had a signed birth-plan in her hospital file, as she had seen it, and said it was very rare. She can't/won't testify because she could lose her job... I paid $1600 through my lawyer for an out-of-town physician to review my records (can't be anyone who knows the dr.), and their response came back "no malpractice". I have a second opinion waiting, but I'm not hopeful. I, too, wish women would be more agressive, although I thought I was being agressive, and at the last minute when I was in extreme pain, it all went to hell. Every other demand I made in my birth plan was met, even if it went against standard policy, ie: no monitors, walking around, eating, no epidural, etc. I am very small, and kept my weight down. I was very concerned about the birth because I had my cocyx (sp?) removed at age 16, and was worried about whether the baby would get stuck because of the lack of bone structure. The baby was only 6 pounds. There was no fetal distress, no complications, although later notes to my insurance indicated there was, probably so they'd pay the bill. My baby, Gryphon (griffon) is terribly healthy at 15 months. I had to go on antibiotics after the birth, which they said would not pass through my milk, but it did, and gave him a horrible yeast infection in his mouth and bottom. I ended up having to give up breast-feeding. I don't know if you can help me, but if you can let other people know what can happen, maybe it's worth it. I looked you up by searching "episiotomy, malpractice" on a search engine. Thanks. C XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Robert. I would like to ask if you could detail for me your birth experience, as my Attorney and I would like to pursue our malpractice case, and feel that hearing other similar cases detailed might be particularly helpful. If I can in any way help you similarly, please let me know. As I stated before, we have found a Doctor who has recognized the breach of not following my signed birth-plan, as well as the impossibility that I sustained a normal uncomplicated 3rd degree laceration, rather than a fourth, or even (most likely, in my opinion), a hole in my rectum caused by the episiotomy itself. Please let me know if you can offer your story for our reference. Thank You. vegicat XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hello, Due to the fact that we have finally, after 2 1/2 years, have obtained the right lawyers and they are going to pursue this case, they have told us not to discuss this case with anyone. I'm sorry we can't be of more help at this time, but once it is settled we will be glad to help you in any way we can. The one thing that I will say is, "never give up", it's not easy, but stay with it. It sounds like you are already over one big obstacle, since you have found a doctor that is willing to stand up and say "foul play". Once again, I will be glad to help you in any way, but until this is settled we were told not to talk about it. Please keep in touch and good luck with your battle. Thanks you for your continued correspondences, Robin XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/99 4:03:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vegicat@cybergate.com writes: << Thank you for the on-line information you have provided. I am currently suing the attending Dr. for performing an unwanted episiotomy that resulted in a recto-vaginal fistula among other things, and your info has been very helpful. Thanks. Colleen >> Dear Colleen, I told you in my last e-mail that I have a new book coming out. I mentioned your e-mail to the publicist at the publisher as an example of what my book could hopefully help women avoid. She wonders if I were to get an interview on a talk show, if you would be interested in coming too to tell your story. If you are, where do you live? (Of course, we have no idea if anyone will be interested in having me.) Thanks, Henci XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Henci. If anyone has asked me that question a couple of years ago, I would have been mortified to talk about such a personal topic in front of other people, but since I've had this experience, I would be happy to let other people know what it has been like, and how possibly, to avoid it, especially since the complications from it will be with me permanently, which I am reminded of on a daily basis. Please let me know how I can help. Thanks, Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Colleen, I am so sorry for what sounds like a real nightmare. Would you feel comfortable giving me your telephone number and where you live in case there is an interview opportunity? The publicist and I would have to be able to reach you and judge whether including your would be feasible, should the opportunity arise. Best regards, Henci XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX In a message dated 6/20/99 10:54:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vegicat@cybergate.com writes: << Dear Henci. I have no problem giving you my address and phone number, and also, I think I will send you a copy of what have written describing my experience for my lawyer. I'm sure you will find it interesting. I will have to send all later this evening, as I am a bit busy right now. Write to you soon. >> Dear Colleen, If you want to snail mail it. --Henci XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Henci. I have decided to try to send this information to you via e-mail. I know it is overly long, but it is pertinent. Please let me know if this has over-loaded your computer, and I will try to copy it and send snail-mail. Thank You. Colleen De Koning 1364 N. College Avenue Fresno, CA 93728 (559)266-3920 NOTE: THIS WAS THE STATEMENT I GAVE TO ATTORNEYS WHEN I WAS TRYING TO FIND REPRESENTATION. Dr. Virginia Fonte was the obstetrician I reported to during my pregnancy. My appointments were once per month at the beginning, increasing in frequency during the last trimester. I saw Dr. Fonte every third office visit, and saw the Nurse Practitioner "Ruth" during the other two visits. My pregnancy appeared to be going well, with no complications. At each visit, vital stats seemed ok. I had discussed with Dr. Fonte and Ruth my concerns about being so small, and was told by Dr. Fonte to try to limit my weight gain so that the baby would be no more than 6 pounds. I expressed concern about my hips being particularly small, and the fact that I had had my coccyx removed- whether this, as well as the fact that I had a rather small perianal area would complicate labor. In each instance I was reassured there would be no foreseen problems. I wrote up a list of procedures that I would or would not agree to regarding hospital and medical procedures which included: No shaving, no pain medication unless requested by me, no internal baby monitors, the right to walk around during labor, choice of labor position, the right to eat or drink as I saw fit, and no episiotomy. This birthing plan was discussed with the nurse practitioner, Ruth during my office visit on 11-25-97. As Dr. Fonte was not there, she could not sign it. The office staff made a copy of it, but I insisted I would bring it back for the Dr. to sign. I brought the birth plan to my next office visit, on 12-12-97, at which time it was discussed with Dr. Fonte. She was reluctant to sign the plan, but finally did so, adding a handwritten note at the bottom stating "Unless there appears to be danger to mother or child. This list was copied by office staff, and -a copy was placed in Dr. Fonte's file, which now only appears to have the unsigned copy in it. On 12-17-97 I went to Community hospital for pre-registration, at which time I presented a copy of the birth plan signed by myself and Dr. Fonte. I watched as the clerk inserted it into my file. This copy does not now appear in Community hospital records, however, a person employed at a local rental store (who also works at the hospital) commented to me in February or March of 1998 that they had seen a copy of my plan, expressing surprise that it had been signed, stating that was very rare. I went in for observation at Community Hospital on January 2, at which time all tests appeared normal. Labor proceeded normally on the morning of January 3, at approximately 5:00 am, my expected due date. I arrived the hospital at approximately 8:00 am. Dr. Fonte was not in attendance, as she was on vacation. Ruth, the nurse practitioner was there, and was very helpful every step of the way. Also in attendance the entire day of labor was Steve Dales, my husband, and Jackie De Koning, my mother, both of whom can give statements about the process of my labor and delivery. All of the provisions I had requested in writing were respected, including being allowed to walk around, not being shaved, no pain medication until I requested it, no fetal monitor. I also was allowed to eat mashed potatoes and toast, and to drink a broth beverage I brought. At no time during the delivery were we told anything was wrong with the baby or myself. At the point of birth, when I had been actively pushing for about 45 minutes , a man came in with a table and instruments/scissors, etc. on it. I was very upset, but was in the process of giving birth. He did not introduce himself, and was very brusque and rude. I asked what he was doing, and reiterated that I did not want an episiotomy. He stated "Well, fine, do you want to tear all over?", throwing his hands up. At that point I was not fully capable of doing anything, due to the pain, and he proceeded to give me an episiotomy. After the baby was born, he used a long hook to pull the placenta out (notes of which are not in records), and then proceeded to start sewing up the episiotomy. I could see the needle and thread he was using. After a while I asked him why it was taking so long, and he replied "Do you want to just lay here bleeding?", again, throwing his hands in the air. This stitching appeared to take at least ten minutes or longer. After he was done, he removed the table and left, again without saying anything. I learned afterwards his name was Damrong Pattanumotana. I have since looked him up on the State Medical internet site, and discovered that he received his license approximately 1975 in Taiwan. When I called the Medical Board, they stated he did not have to have any further training here in the United States. At the time of birth, the baby was exactly 6 pounds, and has been a very healthy baby since. Although all of his tests, including his APGAR were great, at some time the next morning, an attendant came in and announced she was taking the baby to ICU, stating he had a fever. I felt him and said he did not appear to. They got rather angry, but I continued insisting I did not want him to be placed in a room with sick children. After they argued for a while, I told them I would call my mother back to the hospital, and if she agreed he could go. They left, then returned and stated that their thermometer machine was malfunctioning, and that all of the other babies checked had gone to ICU. As far as I can tell, none of this is in the hospital records. I left the hospital the next day, and was fine for a couple of days, although tired. On the third day, I started to get a fever, and felt terrible. I called Dr. Fonte, and was told that unless the fever was particularly high, it was no problem. I do not have exact knowledge of the dates I called or went in to the doctor, as I was feeling so poorly. The earliest record in Dr. Fonte's file is 01-14-98, although I had called numerous times before, and was each time reassured my experience was normal. I continued to have this fever, and finally insisted on going in to her office anyway. I had, over the telephone expressed to Ruth that I was concerned that things did not feel right, and that it appeared air was being pushed into my vagina, but she stated this was not possible. On one of the office visits, January 14, 1998, Ruth saw me, and my mother accompanied me, holding my hand during the examination. I was told that there was no hole in my vagina, but that there was an infection centered underneath the episiotomy stitches, and that it appeared there was a gap in the stitches where she was able to press out "purulent pus" (Her words). I was given antibiotics for this infection, and on 01-23-98 when I returned again, was given another antibiotic cream, which I was assured would not pass through my breast milk to my baby. On January 30, 1998 I had to take my son, Gryphon to the doctor, as he had a terrible rash filling his mouth, and a rash on his buttocks which looked like he had been burned on the stove. He had to then take antibiotics and use an antibiotic cream. The pediatrician said it was from my antibiotics. He immedaiately refused breast milk, and was put on formula. I continued to call Dr. Fonte's office complaining that there was air being pushed into my vagina, and that it appeared that feces were discharging from my vagina, but I was told it just wasn't likely. I was told the discharge was from the episiotomy infection. I was also told I had a very strong "pelvic floor" (Dr. Fonte's words) I started going through the telephone book, calling other obstreticians, asking whether they had ever heard of this, but they all said it was possible, but they had never dealt with it. One of the offices I spoke to was Dr. William Brown, who delivered my sister's children. I asked both Dr. Fonte and Ruth whether the episiotomy had been done correctly, as the stitches were so puckered and lum py I called them Frankenstein stitches, and each time they declined to say the doctor had done anything incorrectly during the episiotomy. I recall something being said about my having had something in the area of 46 stitches, but this number could be off a bit. The site was continuously swollen and sore, and I had to sit on a blow-up pillow. Finally, after being told to wait a little longer to heal, during one visit, Dr. Fonte said that it might be possible that I had a hole, and scheduled an appointment with Dr. Carveth, a Colon Surgeon on 02/24/98. During his visit, he said that yes, I did have a hole, called a rectovaginal fistula. He suggested that I continue to wait for the hole to heal, and for me to get stronger, for as long as six months, if necessary. When I questioned whether having feces pass through my vagina could cause an infection, he said "No, the vagina is so acidic that nothing could grow in there even if it wanted to". (His words). He did not state to me any other problems he might have noticed. I did not like his dismissive, brusque manner. I continued to wait. I returned to work after three months, after the swelling went down a little. Throughout the ten months I waited, I dealt with this problem on a daily basis, having to use maxipads all month long. It was messy, unhygienic and very stressful. To be honest, it disgusted me, and caused problems between my husband and myself. I did not feel comfortable having sexual relations during this time. I did, on occasion, also get yeast infections, which I had never had before, to complicate the problem. I continued to work during this time, and was inconvenienced by having to use the restroom constantly. The drainage irritated my skin, I had to use diaper cremes, and I had numerous "accidents" on the way to daycare or work, which was very stressful. There were times I had to return home to change my clothing. I returned to Dr. Fonte in October, at which time she scheduled a surgical date to have the fistula repaired, with her and a co-practicing physician in attendance. It was stressful trying to arrange the surgery so that my husband (who works out of town) could be there to take care of the baby. After being advised of what the surgery consisted of, I asked whether the new surgery would cause even more problems, and was told "Yes, you will be like a virgin for a long time" (Dr. Fonte's words.) The day before the surgery was to happen, Dr. Fonte called and said she talked to Dr. Carveth, who told her she was not qualified to do the surgery. She recommended I return to him for consultation, but I did not feel comfortable with his manner, and asked for another referral. She referred me to Dr. Garry, in the same office. I found Dr. Garry to be personable and informative. I have absolutely no complaints at all with any procedures performed by Dr. Garry. He immediately asked me, before confirmation of the fistula, if I had felt anything else wrong, and I told him yes. He proceeded to tell me that I had no "pelvic floor", explaining that there are muscles in the pelvic floor, which cross between the rectum and vagina, and stating to me "You have nothing there. there is nothing". He said my vagina and rectum were lying on top of each other, and that the perianal area was way too small. He also said that because these muscles which had been cut had not been pulled back through, the perianal site was much shorter than it should be. He also confirmed the fistula. He said for the surgery, he would have to "Take-down" the episiotomy site (his words), section up high enough to cut out the fistula, remove all the built up scar tissue, pull the pelvic muscles back through to separate the vagina and rectum, and cut the perianal area in such a way as to be able to stretch it back to a normal length. He stated that unless I had the reconstructive surgery, I would have had definite problems during menopause with incontinency, but after the surgery it would be reduced somewhat. He stated that (Contrary to the reported 2-3rd degree lacerations reported by the Dr/hospital), I had suffered 4th degree lacerations, which means I had been cut from the vagina clear through the rectum. (His words). He has also declined to state whether the original episiotomy might have been the cause of this. I had the surgery on November 10th. As my husband works out of town, my elderly parents had to take care of the baby for 1-½ weeks, and I did not return to work until January 4, 1999. The fistula problem has been solved, and I no longer have the messy problem I lived with for ten months. The perianal area has now been extended to a more normal length. I still have pain and irritation, as well as pressure in the area, and was still not able to handle sexual relations until after 6 months, however the pressure and irritation and pain still continue. When I told Dr. Garry that I knew what the site looked like before all of these complications, and asked if it would always look "Frankenstein", he said he had done what he could to extend the area, and that any skin tags and puckers and scars that remained could possibly be removed at a later date. He stated that any vaginal scar tissue could also be removed at a later date. The area is constantly irritated and feels abraded or burned completely through from vagina to anus. There is no feeling in the entire area that is remotely similar to how I felt when I was normal, before and up to the delivery. My husband and I have been seeking counseling since August 1998, with Sally Jones, as this experience has caused us a lot of problems. In my ongoing conversations with my insurance carrier, Blue Cross, I have been repeatedly told that none of the subsequent procedures billed by all medical offices have been reported as being related to my original delivery. I will forward any other pertinent information I may come across, including any dates of previous notes, if necessary. My personal opinion, although I am confused somewhat by the incompetence of several people, is that with certainty, neither Ruth, the nurse practitioner, nor Dr. Garry is liable for any sort of malpractice concerning events that have happened to me. It appears to me that the original extreme episiotomy, lack of suturing of rectal muscles, lack of repairing pelvic floor muscles, and the leakage which resulted caused the original episiotomy site infection, as well as all subsequent problems. I do not believe that any of the physical problems I continue to have, including the pressure, irritation and pain will ever disappear, and cannot imagine that any future pregnancies could be handled in any other manner than a caesarian section, which Dr. Fonte previously agreed with. It is very difficult for me to describe how completely different my body feels now, and how I am reminded of this on a daily basis. It has been very difficult to be forced to be explicit about very personal things when questioned by friends, family and co-workers, and very embarrasing overall. I think nothing compares, however, to knowing and feeling that my body has been changed irreparably in a very negative, depressing and physically uncomfortable way, and trying to feel positive does nothing to remove the physical side effects I continue to experience as a result of this medical malpractice perpetrated on me by Dr. Pattanumotana. Any item in quotations or stating "In their words", is my exact recollection of what they stated, anything else is an abstract recollection. XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In a message dated 6/20/99 11:07:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vegicat@cybergate.com writes: << I'm sorry, I did forget to mention that I would have to discuss this with my lawyer- depending on when you might be scheduled, I would have to find out if this would conflict with my lawsuit. I don't know much about these things, but I will find out and let you know. >> Dear Colleen, I will make no use of the story you wrote me in any way that you could be identified until I have your permission. From what little I know of the legal issues of malpractice, I can tell you that you have a good case. When the doctor performed an episiotomy over your protest, that was battery, which is actually a crime because it is a form of assault. When he performed an unnecessary procedure from which you subsequently suffered harm, that was malpractice. The fact that you didn't consent greatly strengthens your case. Your experience after the birth is, if possible, even more shocking than your experience at the time of the birth. Any competent ob should recognize the symptoms of rectovaginal fistula. --Henci P.S. I have a passage in my new book (with references) that talks about the relationship between episiotomy and rectovaginal fistula. If you or your lawyer would like to read them and have the references, I would be happy to send them to you. XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Henci. Thank you for the positive note. After researching on the internet, I was very disappointed to see most information slanted to a "sometimes there are bad side effects- oh well" type of information about episiotomy. I have only been able to find 2 other people actively pursuing legal action regarding complications from episiotomy, and they were also having a difficult time finding legal representation. Because it is malpractice, and not simple injury, the client must come up with most fees for medical opinions. We applied for 2- one said standard risks associated with childbirth, the other stated clear malpractice. I wish more women would be assertive, FIND OUT what is right, stand up for themselves during and afterwards any surgical procedure, and legally pursue. Hopefully, even if I don't win, it will set some kind of precedence. I would be very interested in reading your books, and any material you could send me, as I find it very ironic that I consider myself assertive, and have always been considered a "difficult" patient as a result, (leaving a Dr's care if I feel their attitude is condescending, for example) and yet I also ended up suffering from systematic, dictatorship-style medical care. I also agree with your assessment of battery, although current medical opinion does not perceive episiotomy as qualifying for that label. Also, I truly believe in a comparable situation, had I been male, the incident and follow-up would have proceeded differently. Please let me know how to order any books or information you may have, as I feel my lawyer would be very interested. Thanks. Colleen XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Henci. Please tell me how to buy a copy of your book. I would be very interested to read it. Sorry I have not been in contact for so long. My lawsuit is still pending... they really take their time. Thanks. Colleen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx In a message dated 9/2/2000 11:30:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vegicat@pacbell.net writes: << Dear Henci. Please tell me how to buy a copy of your book. I would be very interested to read it. Sorry I have not been in contact for so long. My lawsuit is still pending... they really take their time. Thanks. Colleen >> Dear Colleen, I'm sorry your case is taking so long. I enclose an order form. -- Henci P.S. Just so you know, I'm past the point of my publisher doing publicity for my book, so I wouldn't have a need to use your story any more. ORDERING INFORMATION Number of copies at $14.95 each: *Less 10% discount*: Subtotal: If you live in California, add 7.25% sales tax: If you live in Santa Clara County, CA, add 8.25% sales tax: Subtotal: Postage and handling: Total: Postage and Handling Domestic: 1-2 books $3.20 International for 1 book: Canada: $7.00 All other countries: $9.00 NOTE: International sales pay ONLY by credit card or money order in U.S. dollars. Payment by Check: Make out the check to Henci Goer and mail to 970 Buckeye Court Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA Payment by Credit Card: Check one: Visa: Master Card: JCB: Credit card number: Expiration date: Home billing address (required): Shipping address (if different from billing address): Name as it appears on the card: Signature if mailing this form: E-mail credit card orders to WeGoers@aol.com or print out and mail to my address above. Your e-mail address: Your phone number: If you would like your book inscribed, to whom shall I address the inscription? XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear Michelle. Our stories do sound the same... I had the same physical problems as you. It has been 2 1/2 years later, and I still have pain with sex. I have to go back to my proctologist to schedule another surgery for misplacement of my vagina, and another to remove tags from the rectal surgery that still hurt. I have an attorney, and have a lawsuit pending. I contacted MANY attorneys who refused my case, saying medical malpractice is difficult to prove in these cases, unless the child was injured. I guess it doen't matter if the mother is maimed... I finally found one who believed in me. I did have to put up-front money to have my records sent to 2 specialists for review. The first one said my complications were to be expected, the second said it was clear-cut malpractice. I have a combination of complaints that my signed birth plan was not honored, as well as malpractice for my fistula etc. For you, I think you would need to talk to every attorney in the book... it might help to do as I did, writing down exactly what happened to me and sending that out to attorneys. My attorney is very understanding about how embarrassing the whole thing is, and how I've suffered even having to talk about it. My husband doesn't really understand how bad it's made me feel, either. Perhaps if you told the attorneys that you've heard of someone with a case similar to your pending, they might take it. As far as your proctologist- if they know your obstetrician, you should find a new proctologist. The first one I went to, referred by my obstetrician, did not feel I had a serious problem, and even told me that feces in my vagina could not cause infection because "nothing could grow in there", even though I kept having infections. I dumped him and his sexist attitude and found another one who is very sympathetic. Even with surgery, I will never be "normal" again... people do not understand how it really does matter how I feel, and how I look... if it was a guy, and his penis was deformed, and it hurt to have sex, they wouldn't say "well at least you can pee, and just use some KY jelly for sex:...., so it is a very sexist issue in my opinion. I really do recommend pushing until some attorney takes your case. My attorney isn't even a malpractice attorney- he took it because he got mad when he read what they did to me. It takes a long time- it's been 2 years already, and it will probably take several more. Hopefully the doctor will end up getting punished. Anyway, good luck and let me know how you're doing, or if you have any questions. Colleen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: I read your article and you sound like you have had the exact same problem as > me. I think you sent me an e-mail several weeks ago. Our computer got > struck by lightning so I am just now able to send mail. I have went to two > attorneys regarding my case have not heard if they are going to take it or > not. Did you hire an attorney? Do you have any suggestions for me. My > doctor never even discussed epsiotomies and unfortunatley i was very > uneducated at the time of my daughter delivery that I did not know what an > epsiotomy could do. I think my doctor did not sew me up properly but I do > not know how they determince that. I was complaining to my doctor at my 6 > week check up of pressure pain and that I was passing gas through my vagina. > He told me this was normal and released me to go back to work. A week later > I was in his office again complaining that I was passing stool from the > Vagina at that time he refferred me to a proctologist. I had surgury a month > later to recontruct my sphincter muscle and spent 5 days in the hospital. > After the surgury I did not heal I had a open wound that would not close, 3 > months later I was in surgery again to close the wound. 3 months after my > second surgury still the wound was not closed they scheduled a third surgery > in feb 2000 which 3 days before the surgery my wound started to get smaller > so they cancelled the surgery. I was finally release in May 2000 from my > proctologist. he said I would probably have to have a repeat surgery in 5-10 > years. I still do not have alot of control over bowel movements and can't > control gas at all. It is embarrasing and I do not know any one else that > has had this problem. No one understands not even my husband on how much sex > hurts 16 months after the birth of my baby. If you have any advise or if you > sued your doctor did you win? > > Sincerely, > > chell XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Hello. I'm sorry it took me so long to reply. I also had a nasty infection in my stitches, and my dr said it was normal. However, I kept pushing it, and eventually after going to a colon specialist, found out I had a recto-vaginal fistula, as well as severe deformity from the stitching- he had cut through into my colon and other muscles as well. I went through reconstructive surgery a year later, and next week go back for another update and perhaps more surgery. It has been 3 years, and I am still not normal, still have pain. I doubt I will ever be normal again. I do have a lawsuit pending, and if you still have pain, I suggest you go to another unrelated specialist and get a second opinion, as well as a lawyer. If you have any specific questions, please write me. Good luck. Colleen XXXxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I am sorry it took me so long to reply. I also had surgery to repair my fistula- done by a colon specialist- not the obstetrician! I must say it was very painful for me and took a long time to heal (the first bowel movement was about 12 hours of agony) - but it was better than the problem before! I am scheduled next week to go back for an evaluation and perhaps more surgery. The first one fixed the hole, but everything else is still messed up. I really trust my colon surgeon (the second one- the first was a jerk). I hope you have contacted a lawyer- it has been 3 years, and things still aren't right for me physically. Pardon my french, but if a guy had crap coming out of his penis, they'd take it seriously- I lived for 10 months that way, all because some dr didn't respect my birthplan. If you do want a lawyer, get one soon. Statutes of limitation are one year after you discover the problem. If you have any specific questions, please write. Good luck. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 10:37 AM Subject: (no subject) > Colleen: > > I just read your posting on baby center.com. I too had an episiotomy with > the birth of my first child on 9/25/00. I ended up with a recto-vaginal > fistula that I am scheduled to have surgically repaired. Please advise as to > the length of your recovery from this procedure. > > Thanks, > > Jo XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Colleen, I read your story on babycenter.com regarding. You mention contacting a malpractice attorney. Did you do that? Did you have results? Mine is a different situation - I felt I had a valid case for a c-section due to risk of uterine prolapse. Dr's refused and as a result - my uterus did prolapse (fall down into vagina). I am 33 year's old and facing hysterectomy and extension repairs to bladder and rectum as well. I cannot have intercourse at all. After the surgeries, I should be able to have some form of a sex-life, but nothing like before. This would not be necessary if I had a c-section. Everything I'm reading about malpractice laws seems to discourage me from even trying to prove negligence in this case. I was just curious if you did sue. Thanks, and good luck with your healing. Melissa XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Melissa. I don't have much time right now, so I will try to write quickly now, and maybe more later. Yes, I am in the process of suing. It has been about 3 years now, and I do not know how it is going other than that one of the doctors has been dismissed from the lawsuit- so now it's just me against the other doctor. I have just had my 3rd surgery, and I do understand the sex part... nonexistent. I looked around a lot on the internet, and was discouraged also by the lack of lawsuits women are bringing. I called many lawyers in town and out, and they would not take it, saying malpractice is too difficult to win because you are not just fighting a doctor- you are fighting their insurance company and it can get nasty. They subpoenaed counseling records, chiropractic records- things that had nothing to do with what the doctor did. I finally told my story to a lawyer who does not specialize in malpractice, who was a customer at the pharmacy where I worked, and he said he'd take it. I did have to front $5,000 for all of the legal opinions, copies, blah blah- which is legal and standard procedure. So, it's 3 years into it, and I still don't know what will happen, but I encourage EVERY woman who experiences something like this or what you had happen to sue and make them pay- if this had happened to a man, I would have no problem getting a lawyer, and would probably win. They get away with this crap because women are expected to put up with incompetance and injury that men would not because most doctors/lawyers are men, and women don't stick up for themselves and say their whole life has been screwed up because of their inconsideration. It really boils down to the fact that men's bodies are more important- I have had people who didn't understand why I had some of the reconstruction surgery and I had to explain that I'd like my body to look and function the way it did before, REGARDLESS of the fact that I'm not planning to pose for Penthouse, I deserve to have the body I had before without scars and mutilation. If you have any specific questions, let me know, otherwise my advice is to sue, sue, sue. Good luck. Colleen ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 3:52 PM Subject: did you sue? XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Colleen, Thank you so much for the quick reply. I too must keep this short as my 3-month-old still does not sleep, and therefore, I do not either. It is ironic that one of the themes of your email was that if this were happening to men, there would be so much more care taken in how it's handled. I agree with you. Women's bodies are NOT more expendable than men's - but that seems to be the message we are expected to accept. There does seem to be a big discrepancy in the sexes. I plan on pursuing this, but I believe it will be with considerable expense on my part. One way or another, I will be vocal about this in my community and beyond if necessary. I'm not afraid to names names and stand up for myself. Recouping monies is not really my motivation. I want these professionals to think twice and listen to us before they dictate what will happen to our bodies. God, we're paying them enough! I'm sorry to hear that your battle has gone on for three years. Also, that irrelevant issues like therapy has factored into this. You know, either way, I am proud of you for being a thorn in some doctor's side for three years. I'm sure he has spent at least one or two sleepness nights over this because of your actions - I know you have had countless more as I have had already in three months. Do not feel pressured to write as I know we are all busy - but, please let me know if you have a success or hear of some similar cases. Also, what state are you in? I'm in Tennessee and I am learning that the malpractice laws vary from state to state. Thanks again, Melissa XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Melissa. Short note. I am in Calfornia. Also, I do not care about the money. I had insurance, which took care of about 60%... one of my surgeries was 20k. What I do care about is punishment. The doctor will not get punished or barred from practice, but if I get a settlement of over 30k, it will have to go on his record. That is the only punishment he will get. Who knows how many cases he may have settled for under 30? I wish he could be punished more... for the last 3 years he has continued to practice, and not one of the women will know about me. I did find out he got his license for obstetrics in Taiwan, and was not required to do anything else to practice here. I imagine in Taiwan it is customary to be rude and condescending to women?... I imagine if he'd had his testicles rearranged, and had bowel movements out of his penis, he'd complain a bit, too? Ouch, that's me just getting pissy. I do know that one of the issues for my lawyer's belief of compensation is for my loss of privacy. I used to be a private person about these kinds of things, but after 3 years of answering questions regarding my surgeries from family and strangers, I have been forced to be pretty blunt about things I would consider private. And, the only way to inform people and get them to fight back is to be honest and blunt and persistent. Keep fighting. c XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Linda. Sorry I have taken so much time to respond. I have had my second surgery, but I can't say anything is really better than it was before. It is certainly nothing like I was to begin with...but there's nothing more I can do. It is hard to describe all the complications, but if you have questions about anything in particular you are experiencing, please ask. My lawsuit is still pending- they are taking their sweet time. Let me know how you are doing. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hello. I wrote to you a couple of years ago, telling my story of receiving an episiotomy against my written wishes, and the subsequent rectal/vaginal fistula it resulted in. At the time I had filed a lawsuit and could not continue discussion. I have since had 2 reparative surgeries. The suit has recently been settled, and if you are interested in the results, please contact me. Thanks. Colleen De Koning XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hi!!!!!! I am writing to you in regards to the information you provided on babycenter.com about botched episiotomies and was wondering if you could give me some insite. I have only one child. I discussed the option of having an episiotomy with my Dr. and decided that I would leave the decision up to her. She was very open minded and said she would do whatever I wanted. She said sometimes she has to do one and sometimes not. I had an episiotomy after about 15-20 minutes of pushing. I ended up with a rectal vaginal fistula. At the time I did not think that there was any negligence on my Dr. part. I just thought it was from having a baby. Yes, I was naive. I had surgery around 8 weeks postpardum to repair the fistula but the surgery did not work. When I consulted another specialist about whether or not to have another surgery he told me to wait until I was done childbearing. My daughter is now 19 months old and I have to live with the pain and tenderness during sex which comes from the episiotomy and I would guess the fistula and rectal surgery. The fistula I have is very small and the surgery helped to keep feces from leaking but I still leak gas. Later I starting reading information and found out that the fistula could have resulted from my doctor cutting my rectal wall. I questioned my surgeon about this and he said there really is no way to tell whether it was the doctors fault or not, consequently, I let it go. I am now pregnant with my second child and am being advised by the surgeon, rectal specialist, and my ob/gyn that it would be in my best interest to have a planned c-section to avoid further complications with the fistula. Needless to say I am very dissappointed and was wondering what your thoughts are on my situation. I don't think I should have to pay for the extra cost of surgeries, c-sections, and the pain if it was negligence on the doctor's part. Seeking help, Teresa K. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Teresa. Bear with me if I jump around a bit. My first suggestion is to find a lawyer- mine was a good one but didn't even specialize in malpractice. Go through the phone book until you get one that doesn't say no. I did have to give him a retainer when he agreed to take my case, and there are no guarantees- I had to borrow the money. Find out when the statute of limitations runs out, and then contest it. They tried to put mine as the baby's birthdate, but we contested and had it changed to the time I realized my problem could have been malpractice. My doctor and an associate (find out if 2nd opinion Dr knows the first one or is the same group) told me my situation was rare but normal, to string me along past the statute. If/when you find out or contest the statute, tell your attorney about my case and tell them I did get a settlement. Not a lot, but worth it for the lawyer to take. I'll help any way I can. Anything to do with childbirth is tricky because they know if it goes to trial the jury will probably side with the Dr- us women are supposed to be lucky we don't die, I guess. My lawyer got 2 expert opinions with the deposit I gave him.. one said it was normal to have complications.. the other said it was obvious that I'd had a 4th degree tear instead of the 3rd they reported, and that the fistula could only have happened from being perforated during the episiotomy, as it was higher up in my colon. I, too lived with the fistula for 11 months after the birth, and only someone who has been there can understand the pain and humiliation daily from that. My repair surgery was performed by an unrelated Dr after my Dr admitted right before the scheduled surgery that she wasn't qualified to do it. He provided info to my lawyer that stated that my perineal muscles had been completely sliced through, and that I had no pelvic floor left, that the episiotomy stitches were only holding the skin over the surface. I've had 2 repairs now, and had to have my 2nd child through c-section. I haven't had sex with my husband since the 2nd repair because it is too painful- 2 years ago. The settle ment will never pay for that, or anything else, including any other surgeries I may have to have, but I'm glad my Drs insurance will go up- they never even had to provide a statement or deposition, and because we did not go to trial nothing got put in their AMA records. I did however, secure the right to name the Dr and tell my story as long as I don't say I won or how much the settlement was. Big victory, eh? Anyway, my suggestion is to stay FAR away from the original Dr- if you have to go to a different town for treatment, do so, and don't tell any of your Drs you are suing. Then sue, sue, sue....... They got kind of nasty during my deposition, making points about my vegetarianism, about how I got my episiotomy info over the net, the fact that my new Dr had prescribed codeine for my back pain during my 2nd pregnancy, counseling my husband and I had, and the fact that we weren't married when I got pregnant. I told my lawyer the biggest pain was my loss of privacy... having to tell friends, family, coworkers, strangers about how I had gas and feces coming out of my vagina... how humiliating is that? Oh, you're going to be back in the hospital again? For what? AAACCK. The lawsuit was settled 4 years after my son's birth... so you really have to have patience. My advice to anyone in our shoes is sue, sue, sue, and tell your story on every website you can so that women will stop believing that these things are as rare as they say. It is possible your fistula was caused by breakdown of incorrectly performed stitches or by perforation, and if you are still experiencing gas leakage, you should go to a colon surgery specialist- that's the one who told me how bad things really were for me. Actually he was the 2nd colon specialist I went to. The first told me that the feces could not cause me infections (although I was getting yeast infections for the first time on my life, and have ALWAYS heard introductions of feces into the vagina was dangerous) because as he said "The vagina is so acidic nothing could grow in there even if it wanted to".....so I went to a different one. If my Dr had immediately scheduled surgery right after I reported problems, it might have been fixed better, with less scar tissue, instead I was told to wait and see if things would heal by themselves- she was just looking out for herself. I'm just having a really bad memory right now of not being able to control gas when I coughed or laughed... and a couple of times when I was sick and had diarrhea...... I'm sure you know. I don't know what else to say except get a lawyer and stay away from your previous Dr. I really hope you are not with the same Dr or group for this pregnancy, and if you are, I would change Drs now. I hope I've helped a little, and if you need any other info, please write. I am sorry you had to go through this. Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "K" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:48 PM Subject: episiotomy XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Colleen, I don't even know where to start. First, thank you for getting back to me so quickly. It is overwhelming to know that there are others who know what this is like and how frustrating the medical community is. Despite the expert knowledge that the doctors claim to have, it seems that the more contact I have with the medical field, the more I realize they don't know as much as you think!! It seems ironic, but my husband told me that I should sue my doctor right away, but I liked her and thought that this was just a complication that came with having a baby. You know, like morning sickness or strech marks. Anyway how in the heck can the statue of limitations be the baby's birthdate? That's ridiculous. I did not even realize anything was wrong until several weeks later. The only doctors I have seen are the doctor who delivered my daughter and performed the epi, the doctor who performed the surgery (I was referred to this doctor by the doctor who delivered and he stated that he did not know whether the fistula was a result of the birth doctor or not), and the colon specialist after the surgery did not work, who I do not think knows the birth doctor, but whom I did not ask his opinion on how the fistula happened. The specialist only examined me and advised I should wait the repair the fistula since it was very small until after I was done having children. Therefore, I am not sure what degree of tear I had or what the medical information reflects. Ofcourse with my second child, I have chosen a new ob/gyn. I have have only seen her one time, but she was highly suggested to me daughters pediatrician (her 4th pediatrian might I add). My daughter (who has numerous medical complications) has enlightened me to the ignorance of the medical field and I am much more outspoken about my questions and opinions and am not afraid to change doctors. Sounds like you been through a tough time yourself. I can only say that I understand and please hang in there. You have already claimed a partial victory by bringing your doc to justice. You are very brave. I too know the shame of explaining why you have to miss work and having to turn your husband down because you are embarressed/afraid to have sex. Although it has gotten better I am still very sensitive not only from the fistula, but also from the episiotomy. It has been 19 months. Did you have any children after this occurred? If so, did you have a c-section or vaginal delivery and why? Best of Luck to you, Teresa XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Teresa. yay for a husband who says sue. And I am serious, the statute of limitations is very serious. Stop being a martyr and start getting pissed. Be a pioneer.... help other women and sue. Stop listening to the patsy on the back and get tough... I'm sure your husband gets the idea of how it's gonna affect him...I have no time for people who want to BS,,, but I will help anyone who wants to fight... for women, for their children, for their husbands. Write back when you are ready to question your doctors and get down and dirty in fighting... otherwise its all just useless bitching.. Let me know if you need help after you've gotten a lawyer. Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:19 PM Subject: RE: episiotomy XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Colleen, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I talk with my ob the 1st week in April and will get her opinion on what she thinks may have happened. I also have a call into to my colon specialist but he will not be back in the office until 2nd week in April. Also, I did actually contact a lawyer now that I think about it but did not pursue it because they asked what my expenses were and I said about $300 after insurance and they advised to call again if I have to have any additional surgeries but that so far I did not have enough damages for them to take on the case. I will be in touch.. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Teresa. Try again to find a lawyer. They tried to tell me I had no damages because my out-of pocket was so small because both my husband and I had insurance. But that's not what the damages should be for- bills- it should be for pain, suffering and bodily harm you suffered. Maybe if you called around and told some of the lawyers about my case since it seems identical, and tell them we did get a settlement they will be more enthusuastic? It's all bull, because your husband can sue also, separately, for "Loss of Consortium", which means he can sue for emotional and physical loss (intimacy). I don't even remember how many lawyers told me no... but I typed up a complete timeline of what happened from the pregnancy throughout the whole mess and detailed who told me what and/or did what, and what was happening to me, so that it would be easier to explain it. I talked to plenty lazy lawyers who pretty much wanted a confession and a check from the Dr before they'd take the case. So hang in there. BTW I can't remember if I said I had another baby 2 years later and it was by c-section because I couldn't risk tearing back through everything. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Colleen, What's the name of your case and what year was it settled so I can make it easy to find. I will keep in touch. Thanks for all the info. Teresa XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Teresa I think it was DeKoning vs Pattanumotana, but it may have been DeKoning vs Patta... and the variations on my name may be De Koning or Dekoning.... there was a DeKoning vs Fonte that we dropped. We settled in February of this year. My lawyer's name was Roger Nuttall in Fresno, Ca. Hope this helps. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Are you better now? I read your posting on babycenter. I had an episiotomy and had to have reconstructive surgery. I am still healing and am very nervous that intercourse with my husband will still be painful. Your diagnosis sounds the same as mine. A malpractice lawyer has all of my records to determine if I have a case or not. Personally; I don’t see how I could not have one. I am so frustrated; I thought writing to you might shed light on what I may have to still go through. Tracey XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Tracey. I didn't intend to spam you, but I thought you might get a better idea of my situation from previous emails to previous people in the same boat as you and I. No matter what your (or any) Dr says, it happens quite commonly, but as it is not litigated, it is swept under the carpet and under-reported. I assume you are now a mother-you didn't say, but if so, take this as a good exercise for later defense of your children.... get good and angry and smart and hang in there like a bulldog. Don't be afraid to tell people exactly what has happened- I never knew this had happened to so many other people until I spoke up. I did have a mistrust, which is why I had drawn up a birth-plan for my OB to sign. Not that that did much good. Please let me know if there is any specific question you have and I will be happy to answer it. In the end, I did get a settlement, but I did not get what I wanted- the satisfaction of seeing it go to trial and have the DR punished directly. I didn't find out until afterwards that it is not reported to the AMA records unless it is over 30k damages AND it goes to trial... Good luck and keep me posted. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Thank you for taking the time to write and forward the e mails. I agree with all of the women; if it were only a man in or circumstance… This fiasco has had an ill effect on my marriage. It’s been a continuous struggle through the past 17 months. I’ll send you the summary that I sent to my lawyer so that you will know my situation. This kind of medical treatment is horrid; and should not be tolerated, ignored or allowed. There is little protection for the patient; it all seems to be for the doctors. I refuse to lay down and accept what happened without the doctor being punished. I’ll picket outside her office if I have to. How are you doing now? Thanks again Tracey XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hi Colleen, My name is Karen. Tracey gave me your address. Thought maybe you could pass along advice on whether to keep pursueing a malpractice claim for an episiotomy gone very bad. The following is a letter I wrote to an "expert" regarding my case.If you wouldn't mind letting me know your thoughts.My lawyer has suggested I drop the case.Thanks,Karen September 11, 2002 Dr."Name Deleted", M.D. E.Radcliff Ave. Englewood Co Dear Dr."deleted", My husband and I wanted to personally thank you for reviewing our malpractice claim. Your finding of no medical negligence was disappointing but perhaps a quicker and less painful closure to the questions we had regarding my injuries. My husband, being a physician, was quite reluctant to take legal recourse. But the shock I received from the physicians, who examined my complete loss of perineum and their silence when asked if these complications could have been anticipated, propelled us to find an attorney who would get us an objective answer. I wish we could have been told that the loss of my vagina, (it is now less than a ½ cm from my rectum after reconstruction) and my loss of fecal continence was a regrettable mistake. I wish I could have been told that my rectal health was at risk in view of my two previous fourth degree tears, both with shoulder dystocia as well as a third degree tear. I never even received a prenatal rectal exam. Instead, all I have received from the medical community is pitiful looks and comments such as “aren’t your four children worth it?” and “a colostomy isn’t that bad.” Through our own research my husband and I realize there are dichotomous opinions regarding multiple vaginal births after injury. It was our hope that we might tip the scales in favor of the woman who has had previous injuries, to be seen as high-risk pregnancy, and to perhaps be considered for c-section or at the very least have someone with experience in perineal surgery at the delivery. I had a second year resident at my delivery and I believe I suffered for it. If this letter makes you reconsider our case it is the best we could hope for, but we also respect your expertise and will look to the future when the medical community will no longer accept loss of perineum and continence as standard of care. Respectfully, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hi. Thanks for writing. My physical condition and the poor treatment/covering up I received afterwards sounds very similar to yours. I don't think you'll find many people sympathetic to your mutilated genitals- sorry to be so blunt, but it's true. I used to joke that I was going to sue because I was planning on appearing in Playboy but now would not be able to.... I understand, but I don't think anyone else does, I know my husband didn't seem to get it when I said "This isn't who I was for 34 years, even though noone else can see it, I can feel the difference". It really would be different if your penis had been mangled. That said, I think you should either keep pressing your lawyer or get a new lawyer. I had 2 expert opinions- the obstetrician said I had experienced no cause for malpractice, while the urinary/genital specialist said it was a clear case of puncturing/4th deg tear/negligent treatment. The experts must not know your doctor, and it cost about $2500 just for their opinion. I also suggest finding a competent rectal/colon specialist to continue care. Mine was very honest about what he felt had been done to me. I did sue, and they offered a settlement, but refused to negotiate- I was told it was unlikely I would win in court even though I presented well and was believeable because most people subconsciously trust doctors. Even so, it was pretty nasty in the depositions with them asking personal stuff that had nothing to do with my injuries, and them subpoena-ing counseling records from my husband and myself. They even subpoenaed my chiropractic records. I gave a deposition, my husband and mother (who were in the delivery room) gave depositions, and my obstetrician gave a deposition even though she lied through her teeth saying she never signed my birth plan promising no episiotomy. After four years when we settled, the only person who did not give a deposition was the attending doctor who butchered me, who I was suing. I didn't get much for my settlement considering my lifelong future of problems, but I didn't want to risk a trial where I was told he might not even testify! Tell your lawyer about me- if they are interested I can have my attorney contact them. You can also check out your doctor online through the AMA/licensing or more detailed through a paid "US Search" type thing. I found out my incompetent doctor went to school in Thailand in 1972, and did not have to take any training to transfer his credentials here when he immigrated. Maybe women in Thailand don't complain as much... Anyway, let me know if I can help, and keep me updated. Most of all, don't listen to anyone telling you to drop it if you don't want to. Colleen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Hi Coleen! I too, had aspirations for Playboy. Hugh will just have to go on without us!! I'm glad you keep a sense of humor.One of my continence issues is uncontrollable farting so I have been trying to tap into my old seventh grade humor(wasn't that hard) What can you do? I really don't want to drop this thing. I just can't believe they couldn't of seen this coming. I had three previous severe injuries, what did they think would happen the fourth time? Did they think my bottom was made out of rubber? I have been partially castrated and I don't get so much as an "oops" The doctors just say they couldn't have predicted this outcome. The doctor completely removed my perineum. One of the uro/gyn who examined me after said he had never seen anything like this except in Africa.I have thought about contacting some female genital mutilation group and telling them this isn't just a third world problem. I am glad you got a settlement.At least some validation that a mistake was made.I am shocked they would ask you and your husband personal and irrelevant questions! How awful! I hope things are good for you now. Thanks again.I can't tell you how much it means to be able to discuss this with someone who's been there. Not exactly something I can bring up with too many people. I live in Tacoma Wa. Where are you? Thanks again, Karen XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX